NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

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Tim L
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#31 Postby Tim L » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:41 am

Tim N wrote:
jasmay wrote:Should “national championships” be A B & C grade?

What about 2 divisions, Long range and Short range championships.

Short 300-600

Long 800-1000

Shot at separate times of the year.


Sounds like a great idea

Seconded,,,,or is it thirded.

The Nationals worth winning are the ones with the competition present, which in recent times were the Queens events that had the National team training attached rather than the actual Nationals.

We do need to differentiate the Nationals from the other Queens somehow. Perhaps an A grade only event is the way to do that. 700 - 1000 seems like a more testing format.

The location argument has 2 sides to it. It's easy to say ACT is central to the Southern States, what about NQ, WA, NT and Tas. For these shooters it doesn't matter where the event is, Travel is expensive. Pander to the masses or be inclusive? Moving it around does make sense BUT I also feel clubs could do far more to cater to the interstate travellers. Do ANY of the State ranges have a loading room? Everyone knows we cant fly with enough ammo to complete a Queens so we have to travel with all our loading gear. A centralised loading room also provides a training opportunity that MANY shooters would pay for (PRS, hunters and plinkers alike). That's an income stream in itself. How much gear would the State shop sell if loading courses were taking place on site?

Further to the travel issue,
Flying means no wheels, no wheels means no accommodation. All the State ranges I've been to have camping facilities but not genuine camp sites. S&T associations have the land and Tourism Australia has the grant money. Why not have a genuine campsite at every State range? It would increase exposure, provide a facility we, as shooters, need and would provide a genuine income stream throughout the year. S&Ts wouldn't necessarily have to manage the facility, just lease the land and have block bookings for major comps. Hell, that even gives the camp managers something they want,,,, a holiday!
Yes I do realise there are all sorts of legislative hurdles to jump, but no big win comes easily.
Just a thought.

AlanF
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#32 Postby AlanF » Tue Nov 12, 2019 3:43 pm

Tim L wrote:...Why not have a genuine campsite at every State range? It would increase exposure, provide a facility we, as shooters, need and would provide a genuine income stream throughout the year. S&Ts wouldn't necessarily have to manage the facility, just lease the land and have block bookings for major comps. Hell, that even gives the camp managers something they want,,,, a holiday!
Yes I do realise there are all sorts of legislative hurdles to jump, but no big win comes easily.
Just a thought.

There's also the commercial realities Tim. The success of a commercial camping ground depends on many factors, including tourist numbers, local attractions and competing facilities.

Tim L
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#33 Postby Tim L » Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:54 pm

AlanF wrote:
Tim L wrote:...Why not have a genuine campsite at every State range? It would increase exposure, provide a facility we, as shooters, need and would provide a genuine income stream throughout the year. S&Ts wouldn't necessarily have to manage the facility, just lease the land and have block bookings for major comps. Hell, that even gives the camp managers something they want,,,, a holiday!
Yes I do realise there are all sorts of legislative hurdles to jump, but no big win comes easily.
Just a thought.

There's also the commercial realities Tim. The success of a commercial camping ground depends on many factors, including tourist numbers, local attractions and competing facilities.

True enough Alan. I'm not suggesting anyone jumps in without a business case. Has anyone done one?

Steve N
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#34 Postby Steve N » Tue Nov 12, 2019 6:48 pm

I like Rods suggestions for a different format Nationals different to other Queens and agree it should be the standout premiere event.. Just to make it even more relevant the winners could be actually awarded the "National Champion" title for that year.

AlanF
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#35 Postby AlanF » Tue Nov 12, 2019 7:59 pm

I also would like to see a "proper" national championship. Queens Prize meetings, whether they be national or S & Ts, may be called championships, and are prestigious events, but technically they are just large prize meetings. Anyone can rock up and compete, even complete novices. I'd like to see club champions competing in state championships (as happens in Vic and probably some other S & Ts?), then state champions competing in national championships. Numbers at each level of the competition would be such that all competitors could be squadded together. This would produce very worthy national champions in each discipline, with the added bonus of breathing new life into club championships.

Barry Davies
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#36 Postby Barry Davies » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:26 am

AlanF wrote:I also would like to see a "proper" national championship. Queens Prize meetings, whether they be national or S & Ts, may be called championships, and are prestigious events, but technically they are just large prize meetings. Anyone can rock up and compete, even complete novices. I'd like to see club champions competing in state championships (as happens in Vic and probably some other S & Ts?), then state champions competing in national championships. Numbers at each level of the competition would be such that all competitors could be squadded together. This would produce very worthy national champions in each discipline, with the added bonus of breathing new life into club championships.


Some years ago a competition was conducted which was open to State champions, Queens winners and some others.
From memory it was called "The Australian Champion Marksman ".
Cannot remember the origin of it but whoever was running it decided they had had enough. Finally the VRA took it on and run it at Bendigo for some years until the NRAA decided it would be better conducted at Brisbane, whereupon it was taken away from Vic. After that it lasted a couple of years and then died, never to be conducted again.
Barry

RDavies
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#37 Postby RDavies » Wed Nov 13, 2019 7:47 am

AlanF wrote:I also would like to see a "proper" national championship. Queens Prize meetings, whether they be national or S & Ts, may be called championships, and are prestigious events, but technically they are just large prize meetings. Anyone can rock up and compete, even complete novices. I'd like to see club champions competing in state championships (as happens in Vic and probably some other S & Ts?), then state champions competing in national championships. Numbers at each level of the competition would be such that all competitors could be squadded together. This would produce very worthy national champions in each discipline, with the added bonus of breathing new life into club championships.

I'm not so sure about having to go through from being club champion. I know of a few higher end shooters who could never be club champions as they work most weekends and are rarely able to get to club shoots. Others are in clubs who don't have club championships, or are tied up doing range officer duty at club shoots.

I would certainly understand having to qualify through previous Queens shoots, ie having to have had a top 10 position in a Queens over the last year or two. The numbers at a Nationals would not be great, but like you said, it would allow squadding.

mike H
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#38 Postby mike H » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:33 am

Whilst I too would like the National and State Queen’s meetings to be prestigious events,I have always thought they were.For those that are pushing for a change where lesser qualified shooters are excluded,I would be careful what you wish for.The most likely result will be a divide in our ranks,with one group very unhappy as being considered inferior and instead of looking up and respecting the top shooters,they will be identified as a group of elitist pricks.

Barry Davies
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#39 Postby Barry Davies » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:38 am

Does'nt really matter how it's conducted, there will always be some highend shooters who will not be available for some reason or another.
That equally applies to any competition and should not lessen the importance of the comp.
Set the rules and those interested will work out a way to give themselves the best opportunity, might even be that some have to attend their club a few more times in order to qualify--and that cannot be a bad thing??
Barry

AlanF
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#40 Postby AlanF » Wed Nov 13, 2019 10:43 am

mike H wrote:Whilst I too would like the National and State Queen’s meetings to be prestigious events,I have always thought they were.For those that are pushing for a change where lesser qualified shooters are excluded,I would be careful what you wish for.The most likely result will be a divide in our ranks,with one group very unhappy as being considered inferior and instead of looking up and respecting the top shooters,they will be identified as a group of elitist pricks.

You need to read my post again Mike. I DID say Queens are prestigeous events, and did NOT say that Queens Prize Meetings should be replaced by the proposed championship events. They could possibly be run at state and national teams weekends.

RDavies
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#41 Postby RDavies » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:19 am

mike H wrote:For those that are pushing for a change where lesser qualified shooters are excluded,I would be careful what you wish for.The most likely result will be a divide in our ranks,with one group very unhappy as being considered inferior and instead of looking up and respecting the top shooters,they will be identified as a group of elitist pricks.

Well how about we follow my kids school example and give everyone a #1 badge so everyone feels special?

Barry Davies
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#42 Postby Barry Davies » Wed Nov 13, 2019 11:37 am

Alan,
I read your post same as Mike. You differentiated between National C/ships and Queens. The inference being that "anyone " and " novices" would be excluded from National Championships.
You need to clarify what you mean by " proper "
Barry

AlanF
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#43 Postby AlanF » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:41 pm

Barry Davies wrote:Alan,
I read your post same as Mike. You differentiated between National C/ships and Queens. The inference being that "anyone " and " novices" would be excluded from National Championships.
You need to clarify what you mean by " proper "
Barry

Fair enough Barry.

In many (most?) sports, national championships require some sort of qualification process that ensures a reasonable minimum performance standard, with limited field sizes to make best use of the available facilities and time, and with the clear purpose of finding and rewarding the most capable competitors in the nation. I am sure that a championship qualification structure as I suggested could do that better than our National Queens. In that sense it is not a "proper" championship, in fact I haven't seen it referred to officially as the national championship.

Steve N
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Location: Gippsland Victoria.

Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#44 Postby Steve N » Wed Nov 13, 2019 8:05 pm

AlanF wrote:
Barry Davies wrote:Alan,
I read your post same as Mike. You differentiated between National C/ships and Queens. The inference being that "anyone " and " novices" would be excluded from National Championships.
You need to clarify what you mean by " proper "
Barry

Fair enough Barry.

In many (most?) sports, national championships require some sort of qualification process that ensures a reasonable minimum performance standard, with limited field sizes to make best use of the available facilities and time, and with the clear purpose of finding and rewarding the most capable competitors in the nation. I am sure that a championship qualification structure as I suggested could do that better than our National Queens. In that sense it is not a "proper" championship, in fact I haven't seen it referred to officially as the national championship.


So what is its relevance over and above other state championships/Queens?
As said before I reckon it could be an opportunity to have a true National Championship. All welcome? Something along the lines of the USA National F C
lass championship could be a good guide but as mentioned before perhaps the top ten from prior state championships be given priority before entries from other shooters...

AlanF
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Re: NRAA QUEENS / Australian Championships

#45 Postby AlanF » Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:42 am

AlanF wrote:...in fact I haven't seen it referred to officially as the national championship.

Er, now I have, see http://www.nraa.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/MemberUpdateNotice48.pdf. If it is to be promoted as such by the NRAA, then I'd like to see changes to the actual event. Belmont already has the QRA Queens, so perhaps there is less of a case against changing it?


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