6BR for Fstd?

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John E
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6BR for Fstd?

#1 Postby John E » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:19 am

I see that NRAA are considering introducing 6BR for TR and Fstd, to help those members who have trouble handling recoil.
Now, I thought that was catered for with the .223, which is already in use in both disciplines and I can't see why we need to have an FO calibre introduced into either discipline.
Could this be the thin edge of the wedge in getting rid of Fstd by moving us closer to F open or do I simply have a suspicious mind?

John

Weairy
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Re: 6BR for Fstd?

#2 Postby Weairy » Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:43 am

I think it's a fantastic move.

6BR is ballistically similar to the 308. At longer ranges, the 308 will still kill it.

From my point of view, the 6BR makes sense in F-STD. It's forgiving, it's straightforward and everything is quite readily available. The 6BR can't really compete in F-Open over 600yds, not against the likes of a 6.5x47 or 7SAUM. And let's be honest, even the best .223s aren't competitive at long range with a bit of wind.

It also gives an option you can safely use with an old Omark action. Trying to run 155gn projectiles with 46-47gn of 2208 and hoping it holds up, or trying to source a 223 bolt for one, isn't really viable.
Josh Weaire
Nagambie R.C.

Barry Davies
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Re: 6BR for Fstd?

#3 Postby Barry Davies » Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:43 am

There are 5 pages of discussion on this under " Equipment and Technical '

DannyS
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Re: 6BR for Fstd?

#4 Postby DannyS » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:47 pm

As Barry has said, there has already been quite a bit of discussion on this. Weairy, I agree the 6br is great at the short ranges, problem I see is that a lot of PMs are only shot over the short ranges, in which case why have F Open and F S if both classes are able to use the BR.

And over longer ranges will we see FS changing calibre as the distance increases as in f open. Those with deeper pockets won’t have any complaints but others will.

As I mentioned in the other discussion, unnecessary rules changes are a great way to piss people off.

Cheers
Danny

AlanF
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Re: 6BR for Fstd?

#5 Postby AlanF » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:03 pm

Rather than changing what's allowed in F-Std, another approach would be to start a new class for 6BR, possibly based on F-Open specs to attract existing rifles. It would provide a level playing field low recoil class which is not currently available in any other discipline.

Tim L
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Re: 6BR for Fstd?

#6 Postby Tim L » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:19 pm

AlanF wrote:Rather than changing what's allowed in F-Std, another approach would be to start a new class for 6BR, possibly based on F-Open specs to attract existing rifles. It would provide a level playing field low recoil class which is not currently available in any other discipline.

I see the logic but I question the need.
If the aim is to attract new shooters, targeting existing rifles is not the way to go.
If the aim is to provide a low recoil option that is competative (to existing shooters) it would either:
need its own discipline, but that has its own problems. We already have 7. or
Re organise comps as mid range and long range so the 6 can compete in the mids.
ie provide the "new class" by range rather than a new discipline.

AlanF
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Re: 6BR for Fstd?

#7 Postby AlanF » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:42 pm

Tim L wrote:If the aim is to provide a low recoil option that is competative (to existing shooters) it would either:
need its own discipline, but that has its own problems. We already have 7. or
Re organise comps as mid range and long range so the 6 can compete in the mids.
ie provide the "new class" by range rather than a new discipline.

Yes that would be the aim. You mention 7 disciplines? I regard disciplines as TR, F-Std, F-Open, F/TR and now we have S/H. A 6BR class would hardly be called a new discipline if it conformed with F-Open in all respects apart from calibre choice. And if there was genuine concern about the number of classes to cater for at OPMs etc., why is TR C Grade still going? Not sure how your "new class by range" idea would work? Could you elaborate?

Weairy
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Re: 6BR for Fstd?

#8 Postby Weairy » Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:58 pm

AlanF wrote:And if there was genuine concern about the number of classes to cater for at OPMs etc., why is TR C Grade still going?
[/quote]
A question I ask at most price meetings myself.
Josh Weaire
Nagambie R.C.

Tim L
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Re: 6BR for Fstd?

#9 Postby Tim L » Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:04 pm

Personally i think if TR C is to stay it should be for new shooters only. Once they get to B there's no going back.
Class by range would utilise the national grading system. Shoots less than 600 go towards mid range, 700+ go to long range. OPMs can be either or both, Queens incorporate both as seperate comps with an aggrigate score for Queens. (If we keep Queens at all?)
Essentially most Queens have these incorporated as matches already. We just bring them to the fore in place of daily aggs.
We might have to get rid of leadups and make it a 5 day event that are organised along mids and longs. Or keep the lead up but make day 1 mids and day 2 longs.
At the moment to actually WIN, the shooter needs equipment and skill to shoot from 300 to 1000.
With mids and longs a shooter could opt out of longs and still WIN the mid range championships

johno
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Re: 6BR for Fstd?

#10 Postby johno » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:49 am

For what it is worth,I am fairly new to this type of shooting, I think most people over think every thing , I see a lot of people going around in circles like headless chooks.Who is talking about attracting new shooters with a 6mm BR, or are we really talking about a few existing shooters who want to shoot a 6mm BR?
How many clubs have dedicated Sporter and Hunter Class into their calendars or have put much or any time into promoting it? I thought it was approved to entice new shooters to the sport.You want to shoot a 6mm BR build one to meet Sporter and Hunter Class, then talk about putting Sporter and Hunter Class into OPMs and Queens.
As I see it ,it is a new class that has started up to encourage new shooters to our ranges that has not been taken seriously by the vast majority, because we are here talking about starting to talk about adding something new again.
I can only hope that this has woken up a bit of grey matter for some people and got people to really have a think where our sport is going and why, if you make a change and add a new class get behind it and promote it don't wait a few months then want too make more changes for no real reason. If you want too shoot a 6mm go and have a good hard look at the few that have taken on a 223, stuck at it and learnt to understand it, they are up there with the best in TR and F Class especially back to 700,and should be commended for their efforts not try back door a non military calibre to try and beat them.

Barossa_222
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Re: 6BR for Fstd?

#11 Postby Barossa_222 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 9:23 am

I think we should change the rules and bring in any class for everyone who wants a change. Then everyone can win all the time everywhere. We should make the targets bigger too, bring in unlimited sighters like in the US and just take out anything that makes this sport a challenge. At the end of comps we can all get together and hug and talk about how we should have no winners so no one is sad. Maybe we could give badges to 32nd place? Maybe we could merge benchrest, PRS, F Class, TR and ELR together so we appeal to everyone? Vote for Pedro!

bolster55
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Re: 6BR for Fstd?

#12 Postby bolster55 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:01 pm

F Open, 2 classes, 6.5 and above in one class, below this in another. 6 BR issue sorted!
Leave TR and F Std alone.

AlanF
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Re: 6BR for Fstd?

#13 Postby AlanF » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:32 pm

You make some fair points Johnno, but things are never that simple.

Regarding 6mmBR, yes in the first instance pressure is probably coming from existing shooters. For example at our range we have two older members recovering from big operations and both have convinced their doctors they can resume shooting much earlier with a low recoil rifle. And there will be prospective new members, including women, who for various reasons don't like heavy recoil, but may be put off when told they will be expected to compete against ballistically superior equipment.

In relation to promotion of SH Discipline, those ranges with big current memberships, and plenty of available days and/or range capacity to schedule more shooting will find it easier to handle a sudden influx of members. At Rosedale we've decided not to promote it widely because it could quite easily turn into an organisational debacle. We simply don't have enough members to properly induct more than one or two each week. For now we'll just continue to welcome new shooters as they trickle in, and it is good to be able to tell hunters etc. that we have a class for which their equipment is ideally suited, and more will stay and join. As our SH membership increases we'll be better able to induct more, a sort of snowball effect.

One thing I'm quite convinced about is that F-Std doesn't need any major changes. Its no concidence that its been the most popular F-Discipline for the last 15 years.

bruce moulds
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Re: 6BR for Fstd?

#14 Postby bruce moulds » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:11 pm

at longer ranges the 308 will kill the 6br. :?: :?: :?: :shock: :shock: :roll:

I don't think so, at least with 155s in the 308.
higher b.c bullets increase the gap the further out you go. :idea:
bruce.
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Quick
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Re: 6BR for Fstd?

#15 Postby Quick » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:17 pm

In good conditions, the 6BR will out group the 308. Its easier to drive well, but in the rough, 308 with 155gr will win. Bullet weight helps fight head and tail winds. At the end of the, the rifle needs to be pointed at the right spot no matter what.
Shaun aka 'Quick'
Yanchep, Western Australia

308 Win F/TR & F-S
7mm F-Open Shooter.


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