F-Class Open Numbers

[AlanF]

The subject of F-Open numbers has been raised in the F-Std Rules. I'd like to start a discussion here, because there are probably a few people who have something to say, so better to give it its own thread.

The problem we can all see is low entry numbers at Queens shoots. Some are putting that down to shooters just not getting off their butts and going to Queens. I no longer believe that is the problem. F-Open are no worse than TR and F-Std in that respect. We all get approximately the same percentage of club shooters turning up at Queens.

In my opinion the way to increase numbers at Queens is obvious - increase the numbers at club level. That will lead to more OPMs offering F-Open, which will in turn lead to bigger Queens fields.

So how do we increase numbers at club level? By welcoming and helping new shooters! Chopper has the right idea. When a new shooter or someone from TR or FS shows an interest in F-Open, we should help make it easier for them to get started e.g by giving advice, or pointing them to the best people to give advice. If they are at a range with no other F-Open shooters, we can invite them to our own range, or offer to visit them at theirs. If this can happen at a number of locations around each state, more OPMs will offer F-Open, and Queens fields will grow!

Alan

[Guest]

Alan,
The first question that needs to be asked is " why are FO numbers low"
Get some answers to this question and you have a basis for doing what is necessary to increase numbers.
I have my own reasons for not shooting FO but I would be interested to hear what others think.
Barry

[AlanF]

Barry,

I think the primary reason is its harder to get started in F-Open. Once established, very few move to the other categories. Once you get a taste for the extreme accuracy of calibres like 6BR, you're hooked.

I think there are many shooters interested in Open, but converting that interest into shooters on the mound is the problem. As per my previous post, I believe that helping them to get started is the key.

Alan

[Chopper]

I believe that most dont understand or the science of FO and think its to hard to get going ,when you give the basics of loading which is quite simple ,much the same with any basic loading and explain that along with a bit of education of wildcating things dont seem so scarey,i have had a friend of mines win model 70 converted to a 6x47 showed him how to load them ,took him out showed him how to run it in ,then took him down to the targets to show him what he was shooting at ,that little 5 inch V and he said it would be bloody hard to hit that at approx half a Kand said ide like to hit it even a couple of times that would be great, we went back and got him down ,it was great watching his hand shake when he was loading the rifle,well at the end of the day he produced 105.16, not bad for a first timer ,HE JOINED UP TODAY and will be at bendigo on the 19th for the tri match,he wants to go to Karramomus next weekend and is going to build a 556 also for him and his boy,PAUL

[RDavies]

Well, whenever I get talking to someone at the local SSAA club who sounds like they are keen to have a go at F class, I always offer them the use of my 308 F standard gun to use if I am using my F open gun, or vice versa. At the last prize shoot, a father and son both used my F open gun as I wouldnt be using it. This is a very accurate, easy to shoot gun and they realy had a ball, shooting a lot of 10s.
That said, I am more interested in getting new F class shooters to at least come out to a range to have a go, even with my 308 F standard rifle. I am looking at building up a 223 which will also be a loaner to new shooters when I,m not using it.

[Chopper]

Good on ya mate nice to hear those stories,ANYMORE.

[AlanF]

RDavies,

Good on you for being that generous with lending your rifles. I rarely lend my Open rifle because of the cost of ammo and barrel. However we have a club F-Std .223 shooting factory ammo which is great for new shooters. I believe its been directly responsible for the recruitment of 2 of our newer members. Its so easy to shoot - they get a good score first up and want to have another go next week.

Alan

[Dave P]

I am not a regular F class shooter although I do shoot Long Range BR and I don't claim to know the politics behind what happens in your sport ... I just turn up at the local club and have a shot now and again as time permits.

I do however see the same issues as I see in BR gaining NEW shooters as opposed to moving existing shooters into different classes.

I think, and its only my opinion that the biggest single problem with both BR and F Class is attracting NEW shooters.

The problems start with specialised equipment, this is particularly true of short range BR where you need a full race rig 6PPC to be in the hunt, thats a lot of dollars for a NEW shooter to fork out up front. Yes I know they can start with something less but in my experience that equates to a few trips to the range to be hammered and a disillusioned departure.

F Class is in my opinion the place to meet and greet new shooters. Make them welcome and give them a fighting chance. Maybe you need a sporter class in F Open or maybe you need to change the structure of F Standard that would be better decided by people wiser than me.

The NEW shooter who wants to shoot often does not have a 308 or 223 to meet F Standard requirements ie my ol'mate with his Rem 308 with the trigger job would be a good one to bring along ... oh no the trigger is to light F Open for you mate. He gets hammered by the Open Class shooters and decides this is no fun and never comes back.

The idea of allowing anyone to turn up and shoot any centrefire rifle allows people to get their feet wet without spending lots of dollars .. if they enjoy themselves which most will they will eventually build or buy a rifle to meet the requirements of the class.

How manytimes have you said "come along on Sat arvo were only shooting 300 this week" to hear "I don't have a rifle for that" or "I dont have a 308". These are the NEW shooters you are looking for .. as properties get harder to find lots of hunters are looking for a way to have a shot .. what better opportunity for NEW members.

I think the idea of having F standard set up to allow people to just scope the old Omark and move out of match rifle is admirable, but you gained a NEW shooter you just shuffled the numbers. Those people will still be able to compete even against other more modern and new fangled guns .. shooting is about a lot more than equipment .. experience is a player.

Maybe its time to embrace some change, think back to when you had a 243 with a 3-9 x 40 and nought all else .. cant shoot F Standard and get smashed in F Open ...
won't be doing that in a hurry again.

F Standard should be Standard rifle a starting point, not scoped TR's moving around classes. Yes you will get tyros in F Standard anyway, but F Open is the progression not the beginning.

Anyway thats my opinion for what its worth.

Dones flame proof jacket and ducks.

cheers
Dave P

[Ken L]

The idea of allowing anyone to turn up and shoot any centrefire rifle allows people to get their feet wet without spending lots of dollars .. if they enjoy themselves which most will they will eventually build or buy a rifle to meet the requirements of the class.

How manytimes have you said "come along on Sat arvo were only shooting 300 this week" to hear "I don't have a rifle for that" or "I dont have a 308". These are the NEW shooters you are looking for .. as properties get harder to find lots of hunters are looking for a way to have a shot .. what better opportunity for NEW members.

Now this is an interesting comment.
Prior to thr rule change of March 2007 there was a rule that allowed the use of any calibre rifle up to 8mm with a weight limit of 5.5 Kg including any sight but excluding any rest such as Bipod, safe trigger including a set trigger. This class was designed to cater for over the counter sporting rifles.

20.1.3 Field rifle Any rifle complying with the field class target shooting rules as defined in these SSRs.

This rule was deleted by the Rules Chairman of the NRAA.

The use of sporting rifles in club events was the main reason that the Grafton club increased its membership from 10 in 1995 to 120 at the present time with up to 61 shooting a couple of saturdays ago, and not a prise shoot either. Coffs Harbour club experienced similar increases as well.

[Lynn Otto]

Hi Dave

I don't think you be needing the flame proof jacket, what you say makes sense and most people know it. Largely it depends on the attitude of your club and whether they are prepared to use the rules as "advisory" rather than the "be all and end all" of what is allowed. At my club we shoot F Class, no distinction between Std and Open, we are there to shoot and enjoy ourselves. We are more than happy to encourage people with field (hunting) rifles to join us at the shorter ranges and like RDavies above I have frequently lent my rifle to people who have come to the range, as do others. Although it annoys me when Trev coaches them to really good scores but that's what gets them back the next time, they have to enjoy it to want to come back. We now take my spare 223, which is user friendly, with us for visitors to use and Trev will frequently not shoot so that he can concentrate on looking after the visitor with coaching and information, people have to be prepared to go out of their way to help potential new members or they will wonder why they bothered to turn up.

Lynn

[RobH]

Great post Dave. In my club [Junee] we encourage people to shoot with whatever they like. The big problem in NSW is that if they don,t already hold a shooters licence then they can,t shoot. "So your interested well go off and apply for your licence and in 6 months time when you have your licence we will let you have a shot". Sure we can have a come and try day when a licence is not required but only on ONE DAY per year. Makes encouraging prospective members damn difficult.
RobH

[Dave P]

RobH,

The big problem in NSW is that if they don,t already hold a shooters licence then they can,t shoot. "So your interested well go off and apply for your licence and in 6 months time when you have your licence we will let you have a shot". Sure we can have a come and try day when a licence is not required but only on ONE DAY per year. Makes encouraging prospective members damn difficult.

Great point mate and something I should have covered. This is something that our elected representatives (Not just the Shooters Party) should be asked about.

Maybe we should allow prosective shooters to participate in club shoots prior to licensing and under supervision. I have 2 sons, both jnr's and the fact that they have to get a junior permit to have a go is pitiful .. they have to shoot under supervision and a club shoot provides the best possible supervision of a beginner .. lets face it none of us would ever let a beginner just do there own thing, safety is something we all adhere to automatically.

cheers
DaveP

[Tony Q]

It’s amazing how the rules can be so different through the country. I agree, that something should be done, even if it just requires a $50 police security check to be able to continue shooting at a club, supervised and with club equipment.

Something needs to change in NSW!

But, on to the main subject, because at the end of the day without growth we will DIE!

From my experience a growth rate of around 10% for small clubs and 5% for larger clubs is needed, minimum per annum, for proper growth and survival. Also its fair to say that you will get around 5-10% of visitors joining up. So, out of every 20 visitors you will get 1 or 2 members minimum. But, we do need to accommodate those with hunting rifles referred to in this thread as best we can, this will lead to the ultimate goal of some joining the ranks of FS, FO or even as we have seen in our club some have even joined FB.

As an indication, yesterday I spent the entire morning with a new shooter who owns a Remington 308 and a Savage 300 win mag. He has never shot on a FB range before, nor has he ever shot prone, WHY … because he only thought SSAA ranges existed and shooting off a bench at 100 and 200 yds was the normal. End result, he couldn’t stop smiling , and is coming back next week to shoot 600m and join up. He is also coming to my place on Wed night to start some reloading and position lessons. Its up to all of us to do everything we can to help, educate and encourage new blood.

While we cannot and should not be something for everyone, there is no reason at all why at club level we cannot have a Hunter/Field class in both FO and FS. Encouragement is the key. I know we had it in the SSR’s but most clubs were just not catering for it at all. or worse, telling them what they had wasnt good enough and they need to get different gear.

So, don’t be apathetic about this … lets get the ball rolling and work out how we encourage interest and keep them interested.

[toshie]

Hi all
The subject of new shooters is a problem all around the country and always will be. As a member of Darwin rifle club I have been involved in the recrutment process of new members over the years and have found the open day concept to be the most effective. DRC. has expanded the open day concept to be a four week introduction to full bore held on sunday mornings and any shooters still keen after the fourth week will shoot there first range the following saterday at 300m so thay will start competive shooting at the same range as thay have been training. Needless to say most new shooters will try F class during this training period, (and yes I do try to lure them over to the other side). The club has two f class rifles for use of new shooters (308 & 223) until thay purchase there own gear.
My main point is most new F class shooters only have come from full bore exposure and unless thay are loaded with cash thay will purchase a secondhand full bore rifle for conversion to F standard. Most shooters will carry on happerly shooting F standard and will continue to be challanged by this for many years. With a ready supply of barrels, stocks and actions from fullbore sitting on the shelf and simply needing a scope to be attached why would you need to complcate the shooting by changing to F open class?
Please don,t think I'm having a go at you F open shooters in anyway but the simple fact is avalability and cost.
You don't see any rifles even close to the fine tuned paper punchers required to be competitive with F open for sale at the clubs or in a gun shops, and to be competitive requires the right bits and peaces to be put together and fine tuned to the max, and the next thing some new bullet or rifle is developed that blows all the rest away so it's time for a new rifle.
Were as in F standard we are all useing the same gear and after getting the rifle shooting right then all you have to worry about is the nut behind the butt.
Food for discussion anyway
stay safe and on target