George Wittorff hunter class

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Trevor Rhodes
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George Wittorff hunter class

#1 Postby Trevor Rhodes » Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:01 am

OK time to act,George Wittorff has announced the interest and request member to input to set up a hunter / sporting class competition and rules before the end of the January to put before the NRAA board.
Last edited by Trevor Rhodes on Tue Dec 11, 2018 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DannyS
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Re: George Wittorff hunter class

#2 Postby DannyS » Tue Dec 11, 2018 11:57 am

Hi Trev, On the info received from the VRA, George is asking for comments by the end of January, however, contact details have not been provided. Yes, I know we can probably email the NRAA but a direct link etc would be handy.

Cheers
Danny

Trevor Rhodes
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Location: Woodbrook Vic.

Re: George Wittorff hunter class

#3 Postby Trevor Rhodes » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:33 pm


GSells
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Re: George Wittorff hunter class

#4 Postby GSells » Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:59 pm

North Arm’s rules would be a good start if Scott R wants to chime in . Or Seddo’s rules.

bobped
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Re: George Wittorff hunter class

#5 Postby bobped » Tue Dec 11, 2018 2:23 pm

OK. Here's a link to the draft Rules as put out by George Wittorff, and also a copy of the letter he sent out.
Reply with suggestions to rules@nraa.com.au

Please see below a letter from George Wittorff,
Director of Rules - NRAA

I seek your assistance is forwarding the attached Draft Rules to any individual or interest group in your Association who is either promoting or interested in developing an additional class of competition, namely “Varmit/Tactical”.

I have been working with an active interest group to develop these rules, and before submitting to the Board for approval would like as much feedback as possible. The working party looked at NRA GB’s “Sporting” discipline, and NRANZ’s “Hunter” class as a guide. As the aim of this initiate in Australia is to attract people who want to shoot over TR distances, we have looked at weights, criteria that accommodate that.

I believe the Preamble to the actual Rules best explains the reason for looking to introduce this new discipline, but from my local experience I believe there is a huge potential to capture a large demographic of younger shooters and secure additional members.
Note that I welcome feedback, so as wide a range of responses as possible would assist. No response indicates agreement with the Rules proposed. Please ensure all responses are received by my not later than 31st January, 2019.

Thanking you in anticipation of your action,

Yours faithfully,
George Wittorff
NRAA Director - Rules


https://gallery.mailchimp.com/5a2de60c6 ... _Draft.doc

AlanF
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Re: George Wittorff hunter class

#6 Postby AlanF » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:33 pm

This is a welcome development. It'll be very beneficial for attracting members. Its not my ideal recipe but not too far away. My main concern is around magazines. Virtually all rifles in the hunting/varmint/tactical areas have magazines, and I hope we can persuade the NRAA that they be allowed to be used as designed. If its seen as a safety issue, then I'm sure that Field Class magazine safety procedures could be applied.

Wal86
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Re: George Wittorff hunter class

#7 Postby Wal86 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:55 pm

Tactical/varmint class is a good idea, magazine use and bipod etc... Just dont be narrow minded and think these rifles are not capable of shooting on fclass scoring rings..
I do believe a division is needed, two grades, possibly
A grade on fclass rings
B grade on TR rings
Just a thought,
Cheers
Alan

BATattack
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Re: George Wittorff hunter class

#8 Postby BATattack » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:01 pm

Didnt they try hunter class in BR to attact more newbies? Then there was just a rush of people building high end custom "hunting" rifles and defeated the purpose of having an entry level class.

Thats what handicapping is for. You can win at club level if you are improving.

Tim L
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Re: George Wittorff hunter class

#9 Postby Tim L » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:07 pm

No magazines, rear bag and 8kg are my main concerns. The 8kg in particular. Thats only a pound shy of a Bren gun and that's no walkaround gun. Well i didn't like walking around with it anyway.
NZ have the limit at 4.5kg, with no rear support at all.
Barrel length also seems a bit long for what is supposed to originate as an off the shelf sporter.

I think its a great initiative and I'll likely give it a go myself but if the rules allow for the likes of the Womera and other PRS rigs, or heavy guns that can use a 300 win mag to launch 185 jugs at FTR velocities it's possible the discipline will shoot itself in the foot. Maybe a light and heavy class but we then turn 1 discipline into 2 and potentially 4 if theres a need for a and b grades. If it gets big enough great but the 1st iteration needs to create a fair, challenging competition for the largest demographic. That might be unmodified off the shelf hunters, or it might actually need to aim for those already striving for longer range accuracy.
Its not an easy call for George to make.

Wal86
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Re: George Wittorff hunter class

#10 Postby Wal86 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:26 pm

Tim L wrote:or it might actually need to aim for those already striving for longer range accuracy.
Its not an easy call for George to make.


Those already striving for longer range accuracy are building 7-8kg + rifles, most outside our range energy limits and generally have a muzzle brake fitted..

Maybe the bigger question, and I know it's been a topic before but should "brakes" be allowed on our ranges.

Bottom line is a new class is being proposed to attract new shooters, and if what we already have is not working, then a new class must accommodate the market they are trying to attract (2018). If not you will end up with just another class with "lipstick"

All classes are and will be challenged technically..

Not an easy call at all...
Last edited by Wal86 on Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:58 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Tim L
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Re: George Wittorff hunter class

#11 Postby Tim L » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:44 pm

Wal86 wrote:
Maybe the bigger question, and I know it's been a topic before but should "brakes" be allowed on our ranges..

With the proposed class being named varmint and tactical i feel muzzle brakes should be allowed. The draft rules don't exclude them and my understanding is that there is no blanket ban on brakes anyway they are permitted under service rifle and some classes of BR.
I know i fitted a brake to my varmint gun, its a necessity to spot fall of shot. Likewise PRS.
I understand the arguments against brakes, i just don't agree with them.
Put the brake on the outer most firing position (side determined by left or right handed shooter) and if necessary a small plywood baffle to seperate the muzzel from the inner firing position (which has no one shooting on it while the brake is in use anyway).

bruce moulds
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Re: George Wittorff hunter class

#12 Postby bruce moulds » Tue Dec 11, 2018 5:59 pm

8kg!!!!!.
sounds like a case of a hunter class designed by someone who knows little of hunting.
new potential members will roll up with real hunting rifles and go straight away again
4.5 kg scoped is a fairly heavy hunting rifle
these are the guys you need there and that rule will just drive them away.
then they will tell their friends and they won't come too.
selling anything should involve studying the market, a thing not done if that rule is allowed.
might just as well go and join ssaa safari rifle or field rifle.
here is an example of target shooting mentality avoiding a godd outcome at all cost.
bruce.
"SUCH IS LIFE" Edward Kelly 11 nov 1880
http://youtu.be/YRaRCCZjdTM

AlanF
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Location: Maffra, Vic

Re: George Wittorff hunter class

#13 Postby AlanF » Tue Dec 11, 2018 6:54 pm

FWIW, this is a proposal I put to the Board in May.
Proposed Factory Rifle Class for Inclusion in the SSRs.pdf
It was apparently tabled and discussed briefly at the May Board meeting. The key differences with George's current proposal, are that he opts for a single class, and no muzzle brakes, and no loading from magazines.

I believe that George wants the proposal to be a discussion paper, and our submissions will be taken on board. I have already asked him to consider allowing loading from magazines. Anyone with sound reasons for this or other changes should put in their two cents worth by contacting him. If we end up with something less than ideal, then don't let it be because we didn't speak up when invited to do so.
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kthomas001
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Re: George Wittorff hunter class

#14 Postby kthomas001 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:35 pm

Can someone please tell me why we are calling this ‘varmint’ Class? Last time I looked a varmint was an American word for any furry bloody animal. Please, let’s be original...and Australian. Geez.

Tim L
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Re: George Wittorff hunter class

#15 Postby Tim L » Tue Dec 11, 2018 7:51 pm

Well my comments to George match almost exactly with your proposal Alan.
I said no rear support but a light weight bag isn't unreasonable. I also addressed the scope issue but more on practical terms than financial. Varmit shooting requires a target acquisition ability that high power scopes compromise. I sugested a low power requirement that doesn't exceed x4. That, to the best of my knowledge, would limit the upper end to <20. If there are higher powered scopes out there then they still meet the practical requirement.
My personal opinion is that if its to be called varmint/tactical the rifle MUST meet that application in practical terns. My unmodified Sako varmint, wallnut stock, meota scope and Harris immitation comes in at 5kg so 5.5 should cover most shop bought rifles.
My PRS tikka in a chassis using ARC mags allows me to seat long and that gun would give Fopen a good run back to 600 , but at 6.5kg its out of the game. That seems fair to me.


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