The Future

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Tim L
Posts: 368
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Location: Townsville

Re: The Future

#91 Postby Tim L » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:46 am

bobeager wrote: General asking his soldiers to go over the top and see what they can do, and if they survive, "let me know how you got on".

That Sir, is without question the most accurate analogy I have heard made with regards to this topic. Generally, in my limited experience, everything is done 'at club level'. It is, perhaps, for clubs to decide; NRAA or SSAA.

Trevor Rhodes
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Woodbrook Vic.

Re: The Future

#92 Postby Trevor Rhodes » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:00 pm

People have to push people to get any where. Each club member knows someone (none member) who shoots so get on their case push them along, promise them things get them to the range and have ammo loaded for them to try that's a start, GET THEM ON THE RANGE. Next week make sure their there again even if you pick them up. But the club MUST be open, friendly and inviting making them feel at home , if they drink give a beer or two after the shoot as well as a BBQ. This will make them want to come back and keep politics out of sight.

bobeager
Posts: 361
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 1:29 pm
Location: Goulburn NSW Australia

Re: The Future

#93 Postby bobeager » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:20 pm

You all may find this interesting. SSAA NSW is putting together a Strategic plan with member input. Of course, to be fair they most likely have the MONEY to do this.

http://ssaansw.uberflip.com/i/1023716-n ... ember-2018

!Peter!
Posts: 99
Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:35 am

Re: The Future

#94 Postby !Peter! » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:01 pm

This is great discussion, I hope it translates to the beginning of meaningful change.

If I may add my perspective as someone who has shot at grass roots level in several countries other than Australia.

It has been mentioned in a previous post that the strictness of Australian gun laws encourages participation in target sports. I agree and have seen converse of this where target clubs have struggled to attract members in countries with lenient gun laws and strong gun/hunting culture because firearm owners are out shooting on makeshift targets and chasing game all over the country side. Many of these people desperately need marksmanship training (my personal favourite was a colleague who wasn’t confident to take a clear broadside shot at a large deer species from 300yds with a 300wm and spent all season chasing them with no success…..) but the don’t see why they should pay to shoot on a range. Incidentally, the membership and range fee is considerably less than what I hear on this forum.

Sadly, I’ve also seen the loss of a great range due to factions and animosity between different member clubs inhibiting the opposition to the loss of lease for the land the range was on. The loss of the range essentially killed a target discipline in that state. What makes matters worse is new land was available for a replacement range but no one had the inclination to build it because of the factions and animosity.

If I reflect on the clubs and ranges that I enjoyed the most and least, it is the atmosphere at the local club that made the difference. So to me the atmosphere at the local club is key.

If everything is done to promote a friendly inclusive atmosphere at the club level then the rest can follow. This means if there is some a$$hole in the club who is cannot/ will not dump baggage from the last century, then they should be ejected from the club. If some governing body above the club is doing something that is inhibiting the ability of the local club to promote a friendly inclusive atmosphere, then either correct the issue in the governing body or leave. If a new shooter turns up to a 1000yd club match with a new rifle that hasn’t been sighted in, then they are cheerfully helped to get on target and shoot in the match.

Regarding inclusiveness, you can distil the essence of TR and FClass down to remotely punching holes in paper with a centrefire rifle. So, it should not matter how you like to punch the holes and a club should be able to accommodate you if you’re doing it with a centrefire rifle.

So I hope I’ve contributed something constructive to this discussion and I hope that the changes needed occurs.

Trevor Rhodes
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Woodbrook Vic.

Re: The Future

#95 Postby Trevor Rhodes » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:46 pm

MCLE wrote:
Trevor Rhodes wrote:Well Michael with current clubs that can't get on with each other at Bendigo not like Belmont every club welcomed, so they shoot different days and god help those who want to move their club to the Bendigo range as l have experienced and your club the biggest objector. Until the mentality has changed the sport will continue to decline.


I posted this Trevour in frustration at the way we are slowly loosing members and the way we keep doing the same things and hoping to get a different outcome ...
I haven't made it personal Trevour but let me know if you do and we can all air our dirty Laundry ok !!!!!!
Belmont is close to a Capitol city they have a big population very close so easily acceptable for everyone .. Very good facility's it's an extreme example .As to was my example of country clubs with only a handful of members .. But I would bet there are more examples of country clubs on their knees needing help and numbers ...

Michael not having a go a you just your club and it's load and development rational that does not seem to be working. No competition no interest no shooters.

MCLE
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:08 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Future

#96 Postby MCLE » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:59 am

Trevor Rhodes wrote:
MCLE wrote:
Trevor Rhodes wrote:Well Michael with current clubs that can't get on with each other at Bendigo not like Belmont every club welcomed, so they shoot different days and god help those who want to move their club to the Bendigo range as l have experienced and your club the biggest objector. Until the mentality has changed the sport will continue to decline.


I posted this Trevour in frustration at the way we are slowly loosing members and the way we keep doing the same things and hoping to get a different outcome ...
I haven't made it personal Trevour but let me know if you do and we can all air our dirty Laundry ok !!!!!!
Belmont is close to a Capitol city they have a big population very close so easily acceptable for everyone .. Very good facility's it's an extreme example .As to was my example of country clubs with only a handful of members .. But I would bet there are more examples of country clubs on their knees needing help and numbers ...

Michael not having a go a you just your club and it's load and development rational that does not seem to be working. No competition no interest no shooters.

...........

Trevour yet again you have missed the idea of this thread .. And chosen to zero in on
a matter that won't help attract shooters to our sport .. Is probably of little interest to others and won't help with the issue of declining numbers .
I'm not going to get into a pissing match as to the rights and wrongs of whats
happening at Bendigo .. If you feel so strongly about it start your own thread
and go for it you seem fixated on this topic ..I'm just hoping to get some ideas to boost numbers in a sport I enjoy I don't care where l shoot it .. But
I'm wondering if you as a councillor Trevour have the ability to stay Neutral on matters that arise in the future ..As you seem to have a obsession with it that l don't share ..But as I said start your own thread and have a ball I'm cool with that ..
Maybe try and be a little more positive and perhaps if you want to keep bringing this back to whats happening on the Bendigo range as a councillor start selling the benefits of a Zero Range to your members that should keep you busy ..

Wal86
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:10 pm
Location: Kilmore, VIC

Re: The Future

#97 Postby Wal86 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:05 pm

Something to think about Trevor and others envolved at the VRA which I think would be helpful...

Firstly new membership applications need to be made easier... This whole/current system is not inclusive to new members...
Currently new members have to find an "excepting club" once a new member finds a club they then have to be second in by a current member of that particular club... This is complete rubbish, and delays the process.

We need to refine the membership process, firstly memberships should go through the VRA and the applicant should then nominate his/her club which they wish to join.. Funds from memberships are then transfered to club nominated etc..

We also need to make ranges more accessible, the VRA needs to have a calendar online which shows all clubs syllabus, so members/long range shooters from other clubs wanting to shoot can look it up and go there on that particular day and practice/compete..

We need members to be shooting on all ranges not just their own clubs/ or when they travel to a PM. Practice days are great for meeting new shooters having a chat in a less competitive environment of a PM or Queens..
This will also help struggling clubs financially as more shooters will go through their gates. (put on a BBQ and a few beers), helps potential new members, find a club nearest to them and what suits their needs... This will attract all long range shooters, that are trying to do load development or just want to put wholes in paper.

I also believe this will help with junior development, as the hardest part with juniors is the lack of juniors at one particular club..

Just a thought,

Alan
Last edited by Wal86 on Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

MCLE
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:08 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Future

#98 Postby MCLE » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:06 pm

Just on your statement Trevour on how things aren't working for My club...
Here is something of the last 12 months .
While others may have done better it's not bad ..
So the Success of a club can be measured in lots of ways ..But
In the last 12 months we have had 14 number one Badges
One Queens win ..
Almost 30 number 2 and 3 badges
Three members in international teams . And some of them finished in a team that come second in the world .. Trevour .. Another in a Team that won the international team shoot ..
So help me understand how it doesn't seem to be working again Trevour ...
So now we have done this Trevour let's say we stop .. And see if we altogether can't come up with ways to Attract new shooters to our sport ...

Trevor Rhodes
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Woodbrook Vic.

Re: The Future

#99 Postby Trevor Rhodes » Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:28 pm

Wal86 wrote:Something to think about Trevor and others envolved at the VRA which I think would be helpful...

Firstly new membership applications need to be made easier... This whole/current system is not inclusive to new members...
Currently new members have to find an "excepting club" once a new member finds a club they then have to be second in by a current member of that particular club... This is complete rubbish, and delays the process.

We need to refine the membership process, firstly memberships should go through the VRA and the applicant should then nominate his/her club which they wish to join.. Funds from memberships are then transfered to club nominated etc..

We also need to make ranges more accessible, the VRA needs to have a calendar online which shows all clubs syllabus, so members/long range shooters from other clubs wanting to shoot can look it up and go there on that particular day and practice/compete..

We need members to be shooting on all ranges not just their own clubs/ or when they travel to a PM. Practice days are great for meeting new shooters having a chat in a less competitive environment of a PM or Queens..
This will also help struggling clubs financially as more shooters will go through their gates. (put on a BBQ and a few beers), helps potential new members, find a club nearest to them and what suits their needs... This will attract all long range shooters, that are trying to do load development or just want to put wholes in paper.

I also believe this will help with junior development, as the hardest part with juniors is the lack of juniors at one particular club..

Just a thought,

Alan

Alan that is a great idea posting on the VRA site the syllabus of all clubs. Will talk to Nikki Tuesday about send out to club secretaries and see if they are happy with it being on the site. When the zero range is completed l know it's a long drive for some but look what it can do. Protected from the elements 100 yards for load development, croning, grouping running in with little to no wind, where else can you do that. General public call the office and then they are directed to the clubs in their area. All clubs would jump to second a interested person so l can't see any delay in membership at club level.Clubs if possible should have a practice arvo pre PM like the VRA Queens does. Under 21's have a free entery at our Syme and Queens even the Vet PM this year is free to under 25's and for the Junior state team they got a $100 to help them for Canberra. It would be good if PM gave free entery to under 21's and that would be a great help in encouraging junior in the sport. The task force which is not being supported by our members would cover all this so please offer assistance all you members out there saying we should be doing something about membership, ring the office and put your name down.
Cheers Trevor

Trevor Rhodes
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Woodbrook Vic.

Re: The Future

#100 Postby Trevor Rhodes » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:19 pm

MCLE wrote:Just on your statement Trevour on how things aren't working for My club...
Here is something of the last 12 months .
While others may have done better it's not bad ..
So the Success of a club can be measured in lots of ways ..But
In the last 12 months we have had 14 number one Badges
One Queens win ..
Almost 30 number 2 and 3 badges
Three members in international teams . And some of them finished in a team that come second in the world .. Trevour .. Another in a Team that won the international team shoot ..
So help me understand how it doesn't seem to be working again Trevour ...
So now we have done this Trevour let's say we stop .. And see if we altogether can't come up with ways to Attract new shooters to our sport ...

Michael l think l might have upset you and l apologise for that, it was not my intentions. We have a healthy friendship and enjoy are competition against each other. The Bendigo thing had a big effect on me and 10 others that don't shoot now not your fault in any way. You and your family are great people that represent our sport. And it's Trevor LOL

UL1700
Posts: 130
Joined: Sat Sep 16, 2017 5:39 pm

Re: The Future

#101 Postby UL1700 » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:40 pm

Location must be a significant factor, Lang Lang was so busy last Saturday 6+ shooters on every target (5 off) plus spectators and interested newcomers that I had to gave up after two ranges (one range for the Sophie) and go back to work! It also seems crazy that I am lucky enough to have have two ranges within 10 minutes of my house and yet the both shoot at exactly the same time (10am onwards on a Saturday) with no other opening times...

williada
Posts: 734
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 12:37 am

Re: The Future

#102 Postby williada » Mon Sep 24, 2018 8:13 pm

Its hard to hear that the VRA State range at Bendigo maybe underutilized and resources may not be allocated efficiently when some clubs elsewhere are enjoying a resurgence and work hard physically and financially scrape and save through co-operative efforts to maintain and build on their presence.

I may be mistaken, but it would seem numbers in other clubs through their state fees maybe subsidizing fewer shooters at Bendigo on a week to week basis as well as maintaining their own ranges. Who owns the Bendigo range? I would like to see action from a review undertaken by the VRA putting our association firmly on a business footing without fear or favour. A strategic plan should embody a SWOT analysis i.e. strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats.

Trevor Rhodes
Posts: 106
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2014 8:31 pm
Location: Woodbrook Vic.

Re: The Future

#103 Postby Trevor Rhodes » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:31 pm

williada wrote:Its hard to hear that the VRA State range at Bendigo maybe underutilized and resources may not be allocated efficiently when some clubs elsewhere are enjoying a resurgence and work hard physically and financially scrape and save through co-operative efforts to maintain and build on their presence.

I may be mistaken, but it would seem numbers in other clubs through their state fees maybe subsidizing fewer shooters at Bendigo on a week to week basis as well as maintaining their own ranges. Who owns the Bendigo range? I would like to see action from a review undertaken by the VRA putting our association firmly on a business footing without fear or favour. A strategic plan should embody a SWOT analysis i.e. strengths, weaknesses, opportunities and threats.

As well as the task force the VRA is setting up for a membership drive it is also setting another task force regard the Bendigo range with the issues you mentioned and yes the range is owned by all members of our association. Another reason why members should put up their hand. Bendigo has a population of 160,000 people should be a gold mine.

Tim L
Posts: 368
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 7:11 pm
Location: Townsville

Re: The Future

#104 Postby Tim L » Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:44 pm

Wal86 wrote:Something to think about Trevor and others envolved at the VRA which I think would be helpful...

Firstly new membership applications need to be made easier... This whole/current system is not inclusive to new members...
Currently new members have to find an "excepting club" once a new member finds a club they then have to be second in by a current member of that particular club... This is complete rubbish, and delays the process.

Alan

Just a cautionary note on 'simplifying' the membership application process.
This is a point that may have been forgotten, but membership of a club is directly linked to firearms legeslation. Being 'sponsored' or 'seconded' by a current shooter is the self policing action required to meet the 'suitable person' requirement of obtaining and holding a firearms licence. Whether it's the local pistol club, SSAA, NRAA or a property owner, someone has to tell the police that the applicant is considered to be 'of good character'. Ie an individual is saying they know the applicant and that they are a 'good egg'. This is hardly definitive but it is the accepted practice.
It is an important responsibility that should not be taken lightly. In the event clubs dispense with this obligation, just be wary of what may be imposed to replace it.

Wal86
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:10 pm
Location: Kilmore, VIC

Re: The Future

#105 Postby Wal86 » Wed Sep 26, 2018 6:41 am

Tim L wrote:
Wal86 wrote:Something to think about Trevor and others envolved at the VRA which I think would be helpful...

Firstly new membership applications need to be made easier... This whole/current system is not inclusive to new members...
Currently new members have to find an "excepting club" once a new member finds a club they then have to be second in by a current member of that particular club... This is complete rubbish, and delays the process.

Alan

Just a cautionary note on 'simplifying' the membership application process.
This is a point that may have been forgotten, but membership of a club is directly linked to firearms legeslation. Being 'sponsored' or 'seconded' by a current shooter is the self policing action required to meet the 'suitable person' requirement of obtaining and holding a firearms licence. Whether it's the local pistol club, SSAA, NRAA or a property owner, someone has to tell the police that the applicant is considered to be 'of good character'. Ie an individual is saying they know the applicant and that they are a 'good egg'. This is hardly definitive but it is the accepted practice.
It is an important responsibility that should not be taken lightly. In the event clubs dispense with this obligation, just be wary of what may be imposed to replace it.


Tim,

You are right in your comment, you have also answered your own question... "This is hardly definitive but it is the accepted practice".. So why bother it's not a requirement...
The VRA are competing with SSAA and field and game, both of which are simple over the phone or online applications. The new generation are lazy, the less hurdles in the membership process the better..
eg, online permit to acquire (quick and easy)

The SSAA have a huge membership base not all of them are target shooters
Just a thought,


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