The Future

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DenisA
Posts: 1430
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD

Re: The Future

#46 Postby DenisA » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:25 am

Trevor Rhodes wrote:The VRA is setting up a task force looking at membership and how to improve it. The task force is to be made up of the general membership meaning you. Please do something to help our sport, put your hand up and nominate for a position by contacting the office.


This is a great idea. All assoc's should do this.

Barry Davies
Posts: 1196
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: The Future

#47 Postby Barry Davies » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:58 am

What does it take for you blokes to get through your head that that F class want to do it F class way, and PRS, or any other discipline want to do it their way. Sit down and have a rational think about it.
I understand the necessity to get more bodies on the mound but is this really the way to do it.
We have a very well established form of target shooting in TR and FC, and this is where we should be devoting our energies, not trying to appease some other discipline simply because they outnumber us or want to use our ranges.
I have no problems with other disciplines and their need to use our ranges so lets not suggest that I am antisocial in that respect, I am not.
We need to concentrate on boosting numbers in both FC and TR. The thought that there may be a crossover from ( say ) PRS to TR or FC is more a hope than anything else. Be careful, the crossover may go the other way.
We need to establish a working body to investigate why our numbers are dropping off and what can be done to reverse the trend.
It's all very well to place the blame elsewhere -- it's always some other person's fault. Wrong!! The fault starts firstly at individual level then proceeds to club, S and T and finally NRAA.
BY all means change the name from NRAA to something like NTRAA ( T being target ) A new look is much overdue.
I believe we need to get back to the basics of club orientation. I am definitely not against competition but I believe the pendulum has swung too far toward competition.
Have a look at PM attendances -- mostly pathetic -- what does this say? It does not necessarily say there is anything wrong with the PM, but it does say there are reasons people do no attend -- find out why.
I could go on but I reiterate that we need-- URGENTLY -- an investigation into every aspect of our organization from club level upwards, and take the necessary steps -- with whatever pain it involves -- and reorganize with the main thought in mind to increase memberships, not to appease the minority.
I rather think this is what Mike meant when he started this thread -- not the waffle that's been going on, which will lead absolutely nowhere as it has done in the past.
Barry

pigdog
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:07 pm

Re: The Future

#48 Postby pigdog » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:24 am

Barry I agree with some of what your saying, I don't think PRS guys are in these big numbers that some are saying and I don't think they will save your ranges. I personally think all forms of competition shooter whether it be bench rest, f class, PRS are the very minority of gun owners. 99.9% of people I know who own a gun licence and a gun are "hunters" or people who bought guns to hunt with (most of whom rarely ever use their guns that just sit in safes) this is usually due to lack of property access. Most of them have had a famer or someone sign the form so they can get their licence but then they have no where to really shoot unless they go out "bush". I would bet that this is by FAR the biggest untapped resource that the NRAA has failed to tap into. I'm also guessing that most of these people are NOT interested in competition and that is a major issue for the NRAA. Thoughts??

Wal86
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:10 pm
Location: Kilmore, VIC

Re: The Future

#49 Postby Wal86 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:37 am

Barry Davies wrote:I believe we need to get back to the basics of club orientation. I am definitely not against competition but I believe the pendulum has swung too far toward competition.
Have a look at PM attendances -- mostly pathetic -- what does this say? It does not necessarily say there is anything wrong with the PM, but it does say there are reasons people do no attend -- find out why.
Barry


Barry,

One thing that needs to be done at both PM and queens level is more work needs to be done around prizes/sponsorship, shoots are made attractive by putting on great prizes.. Not to many new members are going to fork out the time and money on good equipment to go to a PM to win a can of "baked beans"...

Look down the mound at a queens prize meet and have a look at the amount of dollars spent on equipment/ammunition/nominations etc... Dont see much sponsorship in return from the people we support, remember queens prize meetings are regarded as our premiere shoot.

Cheers
Alan
Last edited by Wal86 on Tue Sep 18, 2018 4:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lightcaliber
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:22 pm

Re: The Future

#50 Postby lightcaliber » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:19 pm

As I have said before we are run by outdated thinking and are not prepared to try something new for the fear of it not working.We need more classes not grades. I cannot believe in this day and age that TR haven't introduced another caliber to combat the recoil of the 308, like a 6.5 x 47 lap this would assist in older shooters. Open should have at least a 22 and 6mm class combined and this is just a start. In recent times there are 3 new 22 cal cartridges on the market , the 22 nosler, 22 valkarie and the 22 AR which all have a higher load than the 223 and could use the 90 and 95 grain bullets. These cartridges are being used in PRS but sad to say in our environment will never be used. Remember those that fail to plan,plan to fail and must adapt to change. Remember the cost of consumables is growing, another reason to have some cheaper classes for people to compete in. I could go, but by now most of you are shaking your heads or stopped reading.
Regards
Gary

tom1
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 10:54 pm
Location: Western Australia

Re: The Future

#51 Postby tom1 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:26 pm

Finally someone has addressed rifle shootings elephant in the room . Most shooters don't go to DRA or Queens shoots. This group has been ignored and taken for granted for decades. They don't go because:
1 They don't like the competitive nature of prize meetings.
2 They rarely shoot well enough to win a division so fail to see why they should be subsidizing someone else's hobby
3 Are sick of shooters whingeing about piss poor prizes.
4 Have been subjected to being chastised in front of others by some cranky old prick who themselves was treated this way 40 years ago.
5 Simply cannot afford to go to "prize meetings" ( I despise this term )
6 All classes of target shooting have to stop catering for the top end of the movement. These aren't the shooters we are losing. Its the shooters like me who are just average , eventually just walk
away out of frustration.
7 I am sure there will be others that could add to this unfortunately.
Look after the grass roots and we may survive. This post will make me unpopular with some but the frustration has been growing for sometime.
Brad Probert.

Barry Davies
Posts: 1196
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: The Future

#52 Postby Barry Davies » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:40 pm

Pigdog ( terrible name )
What you say is correct. An " untapped resource"? not so sure about that. SSR's cover for " field class" which I believe would
cover a large percentage of those 99.9% you refer to. However, where is Field class conducted ? Grafton is the only place I know, certainly not in Victoria. Has been tried --and failed, on several occasions. Mostly field class rifles ( hunters ) are not suited to either TR or FC. Best we could hope for is for them to use our ranges to zero their rifles. ( for a price )
Wal,
You have a point. Big question is, who is going to pay for it? Has to come from entry money or sponsorship. Sponsors, other those connected with shooting are loathe to get mixed up with a bunch of " Red necked" firearms lovers( someone elses words, not mine ). So this leaves us with a problem -- Offer a can of baked beans, charge a higher entry or promote ourselves as other than a bunch of rednecks and pray somebody will be sympathetic to your cause.
Case in point. The recently held Horsham 2 day PM.
Jenny and I usually go but a bug of some sort prevented us going this year. Out of curiosity I did a summary of what it would have cost for both of us for the weekend. The answer --- about $500 give or take.
I am not going to ask the obvious questions --figure it out.
With all due respect to the Horsham DRA, who continue to run this meeting with very little support from the rank and file, what can they offer to attract entries? Not much when 27 out of the Vic population support them. Pathetic.
We are our own worst enemies, no question.
This is the story all over - I believe cost is the biggest factor leading to the demise of PM's as we used to know them.
Attracting new members is only part of the problem. " A head in the sand " attitude ( by all ) is not going to find answers to those problems.
If you want to know the problems don't ask the guy who attends every PM, ask the guy who does'nt go. That way you will get honest answers.
Barry

Barry Davies
Posts: 1196
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: The Future

#53 Postby Barry Davies » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:46 pm

Further,
A VRA notice re the 2018 AGM has just landed in my mailbox.
There is a notice of motion which in a sentence says --" Do away with the state Champion of Champions, which only caters for DRA champions, and throw it open to all CLUB champions in all disciplines." That will probably upset some.
However it is a forward move in an endeavour to come into line with many years of change.
From my observance the comp as run has fallen behind due to the changes brought about by the introduction of FC .
Clubs no longer have the numbers to cater for 4 disciplines TR, FS, FO, and FTR sucessfully at DRA level and as a result out of 13 DRA's only 6 or 7 have the capacity to nominate contenders.
By opening it up to Club champions the potential to at least double the number of competitors is now there.
Forward thinking by the VRA and deserves total support from VIC members.
This, in my opinion is the kind of change we so badly need to keep our operation viable. There are many more changes needed.
Barry

Rebel105
Posts: 639
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:22 am

Re: The Future

#54 Postby Rebel105 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:53 pm

tom1 wrote:Finally someone has addressed rifle shootings elephant in the room . Most shooters don't go to DRA or Queens shoots. This group has been ignored and taken for granted for decades. They don't go because:
1 They don't like the competitive nature of prize meetings.
2 They rarely shoot well enough to win a division so fail to see why they should be subsidizing someone else's hobby
3 Are sick of shooters whingeing about piss poor prizes.
4 Have been subjected to being chastised in front of others by some cranky old prick who themselves was treated this way 40 years ago.
5 Simply cannot afford to go to "prize meetings" ( I despise this term )
6 All classes of target shooting have to stop catering for the top end of the movement. These aren't the shooters we are losing. Its the shooters like me who are just average , eventually just walk
away out of frustration.
7 I am sure there will be others that could add to this unfortunately.
Look after the grass roots and we may survive. This post will make me unpopular with some but the frustration has been growing for sometime.
Brad Probert.


Brad, I'm one of those that do travel with expensive rifles to compete at Queens events. I'm a little sick of just handing over a lot of money to enter plus travel plus accommodation.
Take the NRAA Queens, other than first place one gets nothing, except a badge made in Pakistan for $5. A lot spent ($340 entry) to shoot well and place high up on the board.

Now, I'm not complaining i knew what the prize list was going to be.

A good TR friend told me when I said I was going into F-Open, It's just a fun class, you will get screwed over, only TR get the main prizes. Let's change that.

I now take enjoyment from helping my club members improve skills and equipment with the knowledge I've gained through the years but I don't encourage anyone to go and compete at PM's or Queens. Maybe a lot of members realise that same things as SARA has suffered attendance issues for the last couple of years. A well known SARA board member asked me why the S.A. attendance was so low for F-class at the Queens, TR was down a lot as well, I suggested he should to ask his members.
We have a number of SSAA guys coming out to our range weekly to shoot long range, they bring what they have to shoot and now one of our club members has started offering his F-Open rifle, gear and ammo for them to come and try. They get up after shooting a really good score with a huge smile.

Barry, The TR National teams is currently underway in WA at the same time so bad timing this year for Horsham. I'm currently out injured so couldn't go to Horsham, but now will be offering my rifles to potential new members at club level to help build the club at SSAA's loss. So we may not be offering PRS but we are trying to pinch their members to F-Class not TR.
Geoff

Barry Davies
Posts: 1196
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: The Future

#55 Postby Barry Davies » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:01 pm

Geoff,
I know who is representing Vic in WA- that may have brought the entry up by 3 0r 4 --nothing to do with the timing. It's to do with other factors --complacency, cost, etc
Barry

AlexE
Posts: 76
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 9:18 am

Re: The Future

#56 Postby AlexE » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:42 pm

tom1 wrote:
4 Have been subjected to being chastised in front of others by some cranky old prick who themselves was treated this way 40 years ago.
5 Simply cannot afford to go to "prize meetings" ( I despise this term )
6 All classes of target shooting have to stop catering for the top end of the movement. These aren't the shooters we are losing. Its the shooters like me who are just average , eventually just walk
away out of frustration.

Brad Probert.


Amen!

I'll add that some people can't afford to shoot at a club level competively, much less a prize meet. Additionally young people are much more time poor than the old guard. Spending 4hrs on a Saturday afternoon chatting/shooting and marking manual targets might be fine if you are retired or your kids have left home, but that sort of time isn't easy to justify when there is a household to run and kids to chase.

My club at least would no doubt see a good increase in numbers with the addition of a hunter class or something similar. When a new shooter comes along and struggles to break 50 and get a single super x, they can no doubt be a little disheartened. Being told they can't shoot at all because they have a muzzle brake is even worse. Score them on a Fullbore target and tell them they're in the tacticool class or something like that.

Thankfully my club is looking into ETs, which should make the sport less time consuming and more family friendly to younger shooters.

The average age of shooters in my club is well over 60. Surely that in itself points out that something has to change to make the sport viable into the future.

mike H
Posts: 555
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 5:34 pm
Location: JUNEE NSW

Re: The Future

#57 Postby mike H » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:28 pm

Last week there was RUOK day,reading all this,I am wondering if it needs to be extended for Rifle shooters.

Barry Davies
Posts: 1196
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:11 pm

Re: The Future

#58 Postby Barry Davies » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:36 pm

There's no depressed persons here Mike, just those with genuine concern for the direction in which we are headed, are'nt you?
Barry

MCLE
Posts: 279
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:08 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: The Future

#59 Postby MCLE » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:10 pm

Speaking to shooters from US having more than one discipline on the range works .
Most of the young shooters from the US teams they never started shooting Fclass . But started talking to Fclass shooters while shooting PRS or Bench Rest ect and gave it a try and now shoot both..
Most here if they saw a group of shooters on a range enjoying LR shooting but doing it different would go and have a talk . And before you know it you have started swapping ideals as you both have a common interest be it PRS or Bench Rest Varmint shooters ect accurate Rifles is what we all have in common ..
We are not going to save our sport or maybe even our ranges from within we need external help..
Come and try days might get a few in but not in the numbers needed ..
It must be obvious to most by now our sport isn't that popular ..For lots of different reasons to its not what the young ones want to shoot to the expense to the time needed ..
We need to to be inclusive not exclusive ..
Look at where being exclusive has placed us ..

lightcaliber
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 7:22 pm

Re: The Future

#60 Postby lightcaliber » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:50 pm

Forget prize shoots and have sweepstakes same as Monto Qld where a % of the total pool in each grade is given back in prize money.


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